Why-ideologies-faces-its-inevitable-corruption!

[Magnus Gustavsson]

- Or, can we really create Utopia?

http://oscore.blogspot.com/2006/08/why- ... table.html

I agree totally on this, do you?

[MrPerfect72]

Jup, totally.

[oscar berven]

Ha! missed this one. I can see a grand and fruitful synergy ahead. Not building pyramids, but omni dimensional...(pick a fine word).

[joasi]

I also fully agree in what Oscar writes. By the way there is a book that exploits this theme in a slightly different way: "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintanence - an inquiry into values" by Robert M. Pirsig. There is a quote in that book that I think summarizes what you say quite well:

[quote]I think that if we are going to reform the world, and make it a better place to live in, the way to do it is not with talk about relationships of a political nature, which are inevitably dualistic, full of subjects and objects and their relationship to one another; or with programs full of things for other people to do. I think that kind of approach starts it at the end and presumes the end is the beginning. Programs of a political nature are important end products of social quality that can be effective only if the underlying structure of social values is right. The social values are right only if the individual values are right. The place to improve the world is first in one’s own heart and head and hands, and then work outward from there.[/quote]

[oscar berven]

Yes, it feels like the same realm of reference. I'll have a further look at it. As well as the Israel connection.

I once pictured society as a lake. The lake was unfortunately polluted and sour, and it was certain for me I did not want to jump in. So I looked for the sorce. The spring, the input. Not necessarily as sour but not good enough. Further up the mountain where I might find the first drops of rain might lead me to this pure innocence. I was happy for awhile but later understood, the rain was sour too, due to the circle of life, the biosphere. But ok, it should at least be illustrative and point out that we can not have "a perfect" ideal or political or other dogmatic system, to cleanse this lake. Because it only focuses on the lake. It is doomed to fail. We simply have to look much broader on what we as intelligent creatures have to do to reach this purity or true freedom and to figure out where that freedom has its absolute, and first starting point.

This shouldn't sound like politician talk, right Magnus? Problem is, it may sound abit too prophetic :( . Language is dangerous stuff!

[joasi]

Nice picture!

I think what a good ideology - if there is such a thing - should do is to give incitaments for people to be good. Everything beyond that, like equality, security, productivity etc., if not used as means but as goals, only polutes it.

[ketti]

Yeah, and what does it mean to "be good"?

[joasi]

It's simple. It's the opposite of "being bad"
By the way, you already know the answer, right?

[ketti]

As in "there is no answer"?

[joasi]

No, as in "There is an answer and you know it".
Read the book cited above and you'll understand what I'm rambling about

[Magnus Gustavsson]

To be good is what your individual moral tells you it is.
You can't read it in a book.
Maybe your parent's and environent can tell you some hints and treat you in a certain way to get you in touch with you inner feelings.
If they succed, you will be good.

[joasi]

"To be good is what your individual moral tells you it is.
You can't read it in a book."

Yes that's exactly the point the book is trying to make.

[oscar berven]

Two short essays for your consideration, some of it related to above links to my old inactive blogspot page. Comments are naturally welcome.

[url=http://homepage.mac.com/oscarberven/.Public/democracyNotBorn070823.pdf]Why democracy * never really
was born, ...[/url]

[url=http://homepage.mac.com/oscarberven/.Public/ImAConspirator071124.pdf]Why I’ll proudly say
I’m a conspirator[/url]


Oscar Berven

[MrPerfect72]

I can only surrender to all you want to say in this issue. I like the picture of the lake too. I think democracy in itself will bring people closer to the truth in many logical ways. It will also eventually lead to every person digging deeper into the self, analyzing what is what and getting in touch with the supermind.

[Magnus Gustavsson]

You are very welcome to join in and help AD to better picturize the very essence of democracy as it should be, Oscar!
We will try to make a more attractive homepage (now when we have the logo in place!), I am in the start pits to experiment with a wiki-solution that is:
A. More visual and informative than AD:s current first page:
http://www.aktivdemokrati.se
B: More dynamic by viewing some or the latest postigs up front, so that there is always something new when you visit AD:s homepage.

I think you as a blogger have many good ideas that we could use!

BR/
Magnus

[oscar berven]

That we are on similar wavelengths came as no surprise. That someone should read the above pdf that quick, did, not really come as a surprise either. The more one expands in insight, experience and knowledge the faster one expands further. The theories in the texts are not flawless though. Perhaps the will to expand is. This site/party with its agenda is non-coerced. We are not really a "group" and yet we are. Like using the creative and novel aspects of internet (and other types of networks). We are sort of extending ourselves till we finally "touch" :)

And here I have come to realize the redundancy in this comment.

Oscar Berven

[oscar berven]

Magnus and Martin, whatever will happen, I will kindof "mission" about this. There is no turning back now! We might even meet IRL. I am soon on the road traveling so ...

Oscar Berven

[Magnus Gustavsson]

Things are progressing slow at the moment but still! All over the world.
An active missioning on the internet is needed for sure.
You can see AD as your platform if you wish, or anywhere else if you find it better.
Please let us know how we can attract you...
Let me know also if you come close to the Swedish westcoast!

BR/
Magnus

[Emvie]

Good writing, Oscar!

[oscar berven]

thanks, and the two above mentioned assays on working links;

Why democracy * never really was born, and why ideology is Not left and right and ”something” in between, but still, why in the end, there is still hope ...

Why I’ll proudly say I’m a conspirator

otherwise on this location for further writings

oscar berven